Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri May 16, 2014 7:07 pm


May 15, 2014
bugaboosun

Country: USA



Will you please post close up pictures of the broken weld?

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri May 16, 2014 7:08 pm


May 15, 2014
Rager


Country: France



So sorry to hear about your broken frame, relived you're not hurt.

If you've read through this thread, you'll know that Tern has been very poor about updating owners. I notice that you too are in the UK.

I feel that further action is needed, before anybody is seriously hurt.

Would you consider reporting the matter to UK Trading Standards?

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri May 16, 2014 7:09 pm


May 15, 2014
Christineengland

Country: UK



I am writing again to stop everyone thinking that I must be an idiot. My bike broke in two today and I could only read the very first post from last December and I actually thought that no one had replied to him at all. Now I realise that there were actually 300 replies and lots were incredibly detailed. I thought I was only the second, but I appear to be number eight, and we all seem to be English. I actually spoke to Mark Bickerton today just after it had happened so was pretty emotional and he seemed helpful.

The trouble is that I am now terrified of getting back on another Tern and looked on this site to calm my nerves, but it seems to have had the opposite effect. For the record, my break looks the same as other photos and I have ridden nearly 3,600 kilometres in just under a year. I am a 52 year old lightweight lady and I could not bump up a kerb to save my life. I ride slowly and carefully and had no clue whatsoever that the bike would collapse beneath me.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri May 16, 2014 7:09 pm


May 15, 2014
Rager

Country: France



In no way are you and idiot. On the contrary, you've looked at this forum - unfortuneately replies are now hidden, as you've discovered to your cost.

Can I repeat, would you report this to Trading Standards before somebody is very seriously hurt.

Wishing you a speedy recovery.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri May 16, 2014 7:10 pm


May 15, 2014
Steveroot

Country: USA



Sorry to hear about the break, but really glad to hear it happened at an opportune moment. Was this bike bought new, I'm curious to know?

Steve

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri May 16, 2014 7:12 pm


May 16, 2014
Christineengland

Country: UK



Reply to Rager - I am/was currently on a cycling holiday in the Loire Valley, looks as if it has now turned into a walking trip!! Iam very concerned that I could easily have been killed and I will find out more about Trading Standards as soon as I get back to England. Also, I was wondering about the British Standard numbers that you see sometimes on items. Are bicycles covered by that sort of thing and how could this ever have passed. I will find this out as my dad used to be involved with safety equipment and I haven't told him yet about my accident as I know he will be horrified.

Reply to Steve Root - I bought it new from Evans Cycles in England slightly less than one year ago. I made a mistake in my previous post as I have cycled almost 2,600 kilometres, not 3,600 on it. My husband could confirm that I do not drive it fast, or riskily, nor do I bump up and down kerbs, etc. I had a broken spoke after a few months so I always get off and walk it over any surface that is higher than about an inch that I come across - yes, this is slow, but I always thought safe. You may also notice from my photo that I have added a wing mirror to always see what is behind me, and mudguards to keep me clean, hardly the actions of a reckless, pushing the bike to its limits type of person. I only mention this as I see that some of the other posters seem to think that those of us who had this happen had sort of themselves to blame. Finally , my husband keeps my bike in excellent condition for me and regularly cleaned, oiled and checked it.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri May 16, 2014 7:12 pm


May 16, 2014
Rager


Country: France



I hope the rest of your holiday will be more pleasant. Interesting that all the broken frame failures are from bikes bought 1-year ago. I too bought my Link D8 1 year ago and feel worried about riding it.

Tern has been very slow in providing any information about the failures. I fear legal actionn is required before anybody else is seriously injured, or worse.

Take care.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri May 16, 2014 7:13 pm


May 16, 2014
Lee Tibbetts

Country: UK



Hi Christine,





SO sorry to hear of your accident, I hope you're not to badly hurt and can enjoy the rest of your holiday!!!! And I'm sorry to hear it's happed again... this time on a different model.



Just a note as a few people now have commented on my post looking like it's either a post that has gone unanswered or a fake post... I've now added an edit at the bottom to let people who are just passing and haven't got a login, know that this post has lots of replies and it is in fact an ongoing issue.





Cheers,





Lee

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 6:50 pm


May 16, 2014
bikerrrguy

Country: USA




Lee Tibbetts wrote:

Just a note as a few people now have commented on my post looking like it's either a post that has gone unanswered or a fake post... I've now added an edit at the bottom to let people who are just passing and haven't got a login, know that this post has lots of replies and it is in fact an ongoing issue.





I did a search for Tern frame failures and saw only the front page of this thread. It seems Tern has chosen to disallow Google from indexing the forum pages ( not surprising ). I think everyone understands that this forum will not be online for much longer. it is imperative for the affected riders post their stories with photo's elsewhere to inform others.....to save others from danger. If this forum closes tomorrow there will be no documentation of this mess.



A different thread on bikeforums was created a while back, the URL is http://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/888287-tern-frame-recall.html



Posting here is meaningless moving forward....it will all be lost.



Thanks,

Yan

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 6:50 pm


May 16, 2014
bugaboosun

Country: USA



Google search still seems to work.



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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 6:51 pm


May 16, 2014
mark bickerton




Team Tern
UK Representative

Country: UK


Hi all,

I can confirm that I spoke with Christine yesterday. I hate to hear of any failures, and as I told Christine yesterday, her’s is not the only one. I too am relieved that she is more shocked than physically hurt and she has my concern and sympathies. I immediately forwarded Christine’s information to the Tern service team. It should be noted that her bike is a Verge not a Link and as such needs to be checked for similarities to the Verge Frame recall last year, rather than be grouped with the Link failures reported on this thread.

I will also confirm everything I have said before, particularly that Tern is monitoring and investigating this frame failure issue. It does seem that we have had more than our fair share of these failures in the UK, as far as I understand.

Again, I can assure everyone that Tern will follow the correct and proper course of action to deal with this issue once all the relevant facts have been assembled, verified and agreed upon. I personally have been pushing for a resolution on this issue as quickly as possible. Please remember that every one of the Tern team is an avid cyclist, an enthusiast for bikes, and indeed folding bikes. There is not one of the team that is not concerned that our products have caused injury and stress to our customers.

Whilst we are all waiting to hear from Tern, specific customers should have been dealt with immediately and personally by their dealer/distributor or representative from Tern, as appropriate. If anyone has not been looked after, and who needs personal contact, please feel free to contact me to help put you in touch with the right person.

Sincerely,
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UK Representation for Tern
mark.bickerton@ternbicycles.com

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 6:52 pm


May 16, 2014
Rager

Country: France



Mark, thank you for taking the trouble to reply on this forum. Can you give us any indication of the timescale before we hear anything further?

The problem in hearing in nothing is that we simply don't know if Tern is ignoring the problem, dragging their heels or is working so hard they have no time to update us.

Imagine if this had happened with a car manufacturer - there would probably have been court cases, front page news in all the papers, etc, i.e. a high-profile campaign.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 6:52 pm


May 16, 2014
wolfjames

Joined: 2012-04-26
Country: USA



I have been following this forum topic with some concern, as I had previously been notified by my dealer that my Verge X20 was part of the earlier frame recall, yet Tern subsequently advised that my bike was not actually part of that recall (for an unexplained reason). My wife also rides a Verge. I have not noticed any cracks on my frame, near the weld, but I do notice that the frame is very slightly indented where, presumably, the tubes meet at the weld, but perhaps this is normal (this seems to be the area where the other bike frames appear to have failed). I truly hope that Tern gets to the bottom of this very quickly, as, based on what other helpful posts have indicated, there may be no advance warning of a catastrophic frame failure. Thank you. James

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 6:54 pm


May 16, 2014
Rager


Country: France



Just seen there is a Link D8 frame failure reported on YouTube - not sure if this has been reported here or if this is an additional failure.

The question remains, how many broken frames or injured riders do there have to be before a recall?

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 6:55 pm


May 16, 2014 - 5:03pm
Keith C. Johns





Country: USA



Christineengland wrote:

...I am/was currently on a cycling holiday in the Loire Valley, looks as if it has now turned into a walking trip!! Iam very concerned that I could easily have been killed...

I am relieved that you were not seriously harmed, Christine. I recommend that you not let this spoil your cycling holiday. I would rent a bike for the remainder of your trip, if that is feasible, and just ship your bike back to your local bike shop and let them start the warranty replacement process for you which will take a while. Keep the rental receipts and perhaps Tern will reimburse you.

Christineengland wrote:

...I bought it new from Evans Cycles in England slightly less than one year ago. I made a mistake in my previous post as I have cycled almost 2,600 kilometres, not 3,600 on it. My husband could confirm that I do not drive it fast, or riskily, nor do I bump up and down kerbs, etc. ...my husband keeps my bike in excellent condition for me and regularly cleaned, oiled and checked it.

I think yours is the first bike used by a lady with this failure. And a Verge X10 instead of a Link. Mark mentioned that your model was recalled last year, so I guess the first question will be whether yours somehow missed the recall, or was yours from a different batch? If not covered by the Verge recall, the next question will be whether this is related to the present issues with the Link model(s). These are important sorting out issues which need to be considered before we jump to the conclusion that this problem involves other Tern models or possibly ALL Tern frames of ALL models. But as I said, it is premature to jump to such conclusions. Also, it is not reassuring that you never jumped curbs and that your weight is well below the design limits of your bike, because it is always tempting to dismiss failures like your bike's as the fault of the rider; the implications are thereby more severe.

It would be extremely helpful to all of us trying to get a handle on this issue if you could take a closeup photo of both sides of the area of the break and post those photos here, obviously before you send it back to your bike shop back home. Can you do that?

We wish you a safe continued tour of Loire Valley--on rented bikes (for now).

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 6:58 pm


May 16, 2014
brucemetras




Joined: 2011-11-04
Country: USA





Christineengland wrote:

...I am/was currently on a cycling holiday in the Loire Valley, looks as if it has now turned into a walking trip!! Iam very concerned that I could easily have been killed...



Christine, so glad you weren't more seriously injured.. this had to be so traumatic for you and your husband .. a bike breaking in two is beyond inexcusable .. hopefully you can enjoy some part of the rest of your holiday ... I could more than understand not thinking about any bike for awhile .. certainly you should have pictures for your own records, but I wouldn't feel obligated to post them on the internet.. good luck down the road..



Keith C. Johns wrote:

It would be extremely helpful to all of us trying to get a handle on this issue if you could take a closeup photo of both sides of the area of the break and post those photos here, obviously before you send it back to your bike shop back home. Can you do that?



Keith, seriously, this woman just had a bike break in two and dump her on the pavement shortly after decending a hill at speed .. she's in shock .. all the pictures in the world of her broken hinge isn't going to be "extremely helpful to all of us trying to get a handle on this issue" .. it broke in two just like all the rest.. we on a forum don't have access to the data needed to get a 'handle' on the problem.. Tern has chosen not to address the issue on open forum .. there's the nuts and bolts of it .. either one waits for official word as to whether or not the bikes are safe to ride, and if there are widespread failures, or forum participants can just speculate unendingly going over the what if's .. rest assured, the answer to the mystery won't come from the forum dwellers examining pictures on a page..

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 6:58 pm


May 16, 2014
Krudc


Country: USA



Well if we can't speculate on what caused the failures, can we start speculating what might happen if the worst case plays out - every model, every frame, every factory, every design schematic.

Would tern admit the flaw, file bankruptcy and tell us, "oh well"
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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 7:00 pm


May 16, 2014
Keith C. Johns



Country: USA


brucemetras wrote:

Christineengland wrote:

...I am/was currently on a cycling holiday in the Loire Valley, looks as if it has now turned into a walking trip!! Iam very concerned that I could easily have been killed...

Christine, so glad you weren't more seriously injured.. this had to be so traumatic for you and your husband .. a bike breaking in two is beyond inexcusable .. hopefully you can enjoy some part of the rest of your holiday ... I could more than understand not thinking about any bike for awhile .. certainly you should have pictures for your own records, but I wouldn't feel obligated to post them on the internet.. good luck down the road..

Why should she ruin the rest of her vacation because her bike happened to break? We all survive close calls, and life goes on. I didn't get the impression from Christine that she is that fragile--I doubt she has suddenly developed a morbid fear of ALL bicycles. I'm not suggesting she immediately get on another Tern or even a folder. Christine, just "get back on the horse" and have a wonderful time in France. There is no better way to enjoy that area than on a bike.

brucemetras wrote:

Keith C. Johns wrote:

It would be extremely helpful to all of us trying to get a handle on this issue if you could take a closeup photo of both sides of the area of the break and post those photos here, obviously before you send it back to your bike shop back home. Can you do that?

Keith, seriously, this woman just had a bike break in two and dump her on the pavement shortly after decending a hill at speed .. she's in shock .. all the pictures in the world of her broken hinge isn't going to be "extremely helpful to all of us trying to get a handle on this issue" .. it broke in two just like all the rest.. we on a forum don't have access to the data needed to get a 'handle' on the problem.. Tern has chosen not to address the issue on open forum .. there's the nuts and bolts of it .. either one waits for official word as to whether or not the bikes are safe to ride, and if there are widespread failures, or forum participants can just speculate unendingly going over the what if's .. rest assured, the answer to the mystery won't come from the forum dwellers examining pictures on a page..

Christine, if Bruce is right about you, I am sorry for asking anything of you right now. But I think he has misread you--you sound more resilient than he is painting you. I am sure you are capable of taking a couple of quick pictures of your bike and posting them here. True, we are not the experts, but I think among us are some remarkably skilled folks whose opinions can help the rest of us decide for ourselves how to handle this situation while we all wait for Tern to deliver their official findings. We have nothing else to go on for now. It would be incredibly useful to be able to compare your photos to the others which have been posted thus far. And since you are now part of our story first-hand, the outcome will be something you have a stake in as well. I think our witnessing here is helping to guide Tern to stay on track with doing the right thing.

And by all means, get another bike and enjoy your vacation.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 7:00 pm


May 16, 2014
brucemetras




Country: USA


Keith, do you own a Tern? if so, which model?

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 7:01 pm


May 17, 2014
Keith C. Johns





Country: USA


brucemetras wrote:

Keith, do you own a Tern? if so, which model?

I'll make this really easy for you, Bruce.

No, I do not yet own any Tern bicycles.

I served up a nice pitch down the center for you. Let's see what you indend to do with it.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 7:02 pm


May 17, 2014 - 1:19am
Rager

Country: France


Guys, Christine has had an obviously very nasty accident during her holiday.

PLEASE, let's not get into any personal disputes here - let's keep focused on what is a serious problem.

Christine, enjoy the rest of your holiday - don't worry about the bike.

Regards.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 7:04 pm

May 17, 2014
Christineengland

Country: UK


First guys, thanks for your concerns, I probably lie somewhere in the middle of your thoughts, 4as in I never want to ride a Tern again, but I am looking forward to getting a new bike and carrying on, although the current trip has gone completely pear shaped. I did take a couple of photos of the break and here they are.







Also, a friend found an article about the US recall and my frame number was listed on it, but the service key number wasn't right so it wouldn't have been included in it. Don't know why this would be as a bought it new from the main UK dealer.

Finally if you are interested, , here is a link to my blog showing me and my Tern in happier times

http://christinesgoldfish.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/madeira_16.html


Last edited by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 7:06 pm


May 18, 2014
edwinic




Country: Philippines

Christineengland wrote:

My Tern Verge X10 snapped in half today at the folding joint. It appears not to have been welded properly. I was extremely lucky as I had just ridden it 50 kilometres along smooth roads and then parked for a moment. As I remounted it snapped and I fell forwards on to gravel.

I am obviously shaken and hurt, but relieved it did not happen on a fast stretch. I weigh 140 pounds, ride it slowly and only on solid ground so cannot understand it.

What was your outcome when you contacted Tern and did you ever hear of it happening to anyone else?

can we start a new topic, Not On The Verge Of Breaking?

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 7:08 pm


May 19, 2014
Keith C. Johns



Country: USA






Christineengland wrote:

First guys, thanks for your concerns, I probably lie somewhere in the middle of your thoughts, 4as in I never want to ride a Tern again, but I am looking forward to getting a new bike and carrying on, although the current trip has gone completely pear shaped. I did take a couple of photos of the break and here they are.







Also, a friend found an article about the US recall and my frame number was listed on it, but the service key number wasn't right so it wouldn't have been included in it. Don't know why this would be as a bought it new from the main UK dealer.

Finally if you are interested, , here is a link to my blog showing me and my Tern in happier times

http://christinesgoldfish.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/madeira_16.html

Thank you for posting those photos Christine; they are VERY helpful.

I don't think anyone here is going to try to talk you into getting back on a Tern bicycle after your close call. Perhaps after Tern corrects the design/manufacturing problem and has attained a perfect safety record you may reconsider. Meanwhile, you will want to get your bike fixed or your money back and that hinges on Tern's investigation here. You have some capital invested here so you will no doubt stay tuned. Again, I hope you get another bike, whether by purchase or rental, and enjoy the rest of your tour.

Now, regarding those photos, I can see the same attribute that I noted previously. The welds are superficial, not penetrating most of the metal they are supposed to be joining. Only some of the welds penetrated through the tubing to the center, but the butt end of the down tube remains intact and untouched by the overlying weld in large zones, which ought to be melted into the weld as a solid mass of metal. The cause of this and perhaps all of the frame failures is bad welds. This is obvious to my untrained eyes. Unless there is some technicality I don't know about, it is clearly poor welding, and less design at fault here. This is a different model than the others on this thread so the implications of this broadens the scope of this problem.

The questions which arise from this are:

<> Are all the different welds on this bike done this same way? And would they all eventually fail if the others were fixed and enough time elapsed? Is this one break just the tip of the iceberg? Perhaps this weld failed first just because it is the one most highly stressed, not that the others are any better. Does the same person do all the welds on any one frame?

<> How many of Tern's bicycles have been welded this way? How many different models? How many different batches? How extensive is this problem? Are we talking about just a few from one factory during a short period, or are we talking about every single Tern bike? If the latter, is it just a matter of time before every Tern bike fails?

If that last speculation turns out to be accurate, with 100,000+ Tern bikes out there today, it would bankrupt the company to recall them all. So for Tern's sake, I hope this issue is limited to a very small group. I would be surprised if it were ALL Tern bikes since this company is run by very smart and experienced people who would have tested their bikes to failure and broken them apart to see the weld quality to guard against this kind of thing from the very start. Only foolish overconfidence could permit this kind of mistake on that scale, and I just don't see that attitude here. A product-wide recall would be so horrific it would explain the long delay in announcing the outcome of the investigation into these failures.

I have to add that when I look at a Tern bicycle, new from the factory, it is absolutely beautiful. A true work of Art. Wonderful sculptural design, beautifully painted, neat TIG welding everywhere... I could see it on a pedistool in an Art Museum as beautiful sculpture and industrial design. When I look at the photos of these masterpieces, the farthest thing from my mind is that these could fall apart catastrophically. Anything that beautiful just must be as well made as it looks. Perhaps not, and perhaps Tern has made such a fine work of Art that they have been fooled by their own artistry.

I am holding out for the hope that this is just a very limited group of frames with bad welds. But we must wait to hear from Tern to know for sure. June 21 is not that far off; surely we will hear by then at the half-a-year mark for the final word on this.

Meanwhile, I would welcome a welding expert commenting on these photos.

Thanks again to Christine.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon May 19, 2014 7:09 pm


May 18, 2014
geraldceasar



Country: Singapore


Christineengland wrote:

My Tern Verge X10 snapped in half today at the folding joint. It appears not to have been welded properly. I was extremely lucky as I had just ridden it 50 kilometres along smooth roads and then parked for a moment. As I remounted it snapped and I fell forwards on to gravel.

I am obviously shaken and hurt, but relieved it did not happen on a fast stretch. I weigh 140 pounds, ride it slowly and only on solid ground so cannot understand it.

What was your outcome when you contacted Tern and did you ever hear of it happening to anyone else?

when was the bike bought? have you checked the service tag number of your frame if its affected by the recall..

here is the link

http://www.ternbicycles.com/support/notice/13/05

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