Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:19 pm


April 4, 2014 - 7:04am
Steveroot

Country: USA




Don't feed the troll, please.

Steve

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:08 pm

April 4, 2014 - 8:03am (new)
jimothwald

Joined: 2012-10-08
Country: UK


My Verge x30h snapped on me this morning whilst ridding through Clerkenwell in London. I wasnt subjecting the frame to any out of the ordinary stress or pressure. It just snapped and the first thing I knew I was on the floor. It snapped on the main pivot folding hings where it connects the front section of the frame; straight through the weld. Ive taken it back to Evans in Spittafields. The guy there said he had another exact same snap 3 months ago but on a different model. They are going to contact tern and Evans will contact me when they hear back.


Last edited by Admin on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:21 am


April 4, 2014 - 8:15am
pdenton

Country: UK



jimothwald wrote:

My Verge x30h snapped on me this morning whilst ridding through Clerkenwell in London. I wasnt subjecting the frame to any out of the ordinary stress or pressure. It just snapped and the first thing I knew I was on the floor. It snapped on the main pivot folding hings where it connects the front section of the frame; straight through the weld. Ive taken it back to Evans in Spittafields. The guy there said he had another exact same snap 3 months ago but on a different model. They are going to contact tern and Evans will contact me when they hear back.



Interesting to note my model was recalled in the USA in July last year!




WOW!!!! How you are all right mate?!



Is it the same problem that the rest of the guys have had? Do you have a picture?



This is really unnerving me now..... I think I need to sell my Tern. I really cant take the chance of it failing apart on the road!

I know It may not fail, but my family use it from time to time to do short trips and I honestly cant risk their safety. Infact my wife has just read the thread... I now going to try and part exchange it.


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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:33 am


April 4, 2014 - 9:33am (new)
pdenton

Joined: 2014-04-03


pdenton wrote:



WOW!!!! How you are all right mate?!


Sorry, I meant Hope you are alright mate?!



..fast typing!

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:11 am


April 4, 2014 - 9:52am (new)
jimothwald

Country: UK



I didnt take a picture actually, but it looked exactly the same as the others posted on this thread. Im alright luckily, bu my hip is sore (which i think is just bruising). Ive got a heavily bruised little finger and the usual cuts to the knee and elsewhere. Got off pretty lightly, but I was going slowly which is lucky.



I wouldnt jump to conclusions as Im sure these incidents are very rare considering the numbers produced.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:29 am


April 4, 2014 - 10:23am (new)
Keith C. Johns





Country: USA


Steveroot wrote:

Don't feed the troll, please.

Steve

Quite right Steve. If he doesn't have a horse in the race--doesn't own a Tern bike--and can not show any interest that connects him to the issue, his comments are irrelevant. His motivations evidently are to just do damage to this website and Tern.

I like to welcome new forum associates who want to help the cause of Bicycling in general, including making cycling safer for all of us. But this does not include those whose only motivation is to tear down this forum.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:47 am


April 4, 2014 - 12:38pm
orbit

Country: UK


 Crying or Very sad Another breakage. Not good. Come on Tern is this a recall situation? Now you have people thinking of part exchanging their bikes, why are these bike breaking? What is the solution?



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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:08 pm


April 4, 2014 - 1:03pm
swami27


Joined: 2012-05-08
Country: Canada



I have been keeping up with this thread since the first Link D8 failure was reported some months ago and clearly these mounting reports of frame failures are unsettling. I myself own a Link P9 and my wife a Link D8 so my concerns for our safety are genuine. I have the greatest of respect for the regulars on this Forum namely Mr. Johns, Steve, and Mr. Thor, and I am certainly not a troll or have any type of agenda and I'm most assuredly not trying to be malicious in any way whatsoever. I read the articles for insight into issues that regular Tern owners experience, problems they encounter, and solutions they offer while at the same time contributing ideas and observations I've found in the communal spirit of the Forum. I really love my bike and I spend a lot of time riding it, cleaning it, and maintaining it. I love the philosophy behind the brand, the product, and this Forum so I would hope that my comments are viewed as sincere and appropriate.

I believe that events more than warrant an investigation and I feel certain that this is currently ongoing. I agree that these investigations and analyses take time and are likely quite costly. Fortunately past practice does show that Tern will order a re-call if it is determined that there is indeed a problem with their frames. At the same time I also believe that these events are a real cause for concern and it isn't alarmist or detrimental to use language or comments on this Forum to express that concern. I must say that the timing of this thread going quiet was troubling to me too and I feared that steps were being taken towards damage control. However, I can appreciate how others could construe it as an action consistent with the initial phases of a cover-up especially as reports of failures are now spreading through several Tern models. I hope this is not the case. We all hope this is not the case but with every failure the concern grows. What readers and owners need now are words of assurance from management that steps are definately being take, how widespread the problem is, and an indication of when an announcement will be made because this can no longer be considered an anomaly.The time has come for Tern to calm the troubled waters of this inconvenient truth. History will prove it was the right thing to do.

With all due respect,

Jim Barron

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:09 pm


April 4, 2014 - 1:05pm
samo



Joined: 2011-08-01
Country: Malaysia


Whoah! This is a serious issue.. I have faith in Tern on resolving this matter.. And offer some good thoughts and healing vibes to the affected parties..

Hang in there guys..

Sam

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:10 pm


April 4, 2014 - 5:32pm
bikerrrguy

Country: USA



One day after my last post we have another failure. This is ominous.



For the record there are multiple people on this forum with hidden/false identities....I am one. My name is Yan Lyansky designer of the Downtube folding bike. I am also a Sivananda trained yogi, Theta Healer, and math professor. Keith C. Johns is not a real person rather an account run by Tern. Lately Josh Hon has been posting under this alias.

I am certain Tern has not sold anywhere near half of the claimed 100k bikes. I have contacted the CPSC and they will get the real numbers from USA customs. FYI behind Japan the USA is the top folding bike market in the world. The UK market is actually small in comparison. FYI I distributed bikes in both markets.

Tern has no factory or engineering staff, it is a marketing company. They outsourced frame manufacturing and assembly overseas. The factory they chose has known issues in multiple markets. I am posting a picture of the SG3 Storm sold in the Philippines. There are many of the exact same failures on facebook. Josh knows about these problems ( let's get real I know about them ). He has done nothing.

I have run a bicycle manufacturer for over 10 years. My best selling bike has been the 9FS in 10 years I have had 2 broken frames. Both had spider cracks around the seatpost. I had about a small number of front suspension frames deveop similar problems until I changed the seat tube in 2007/2008 and I am not sure I had any breaks since.

I have been in the bicycle industry for about 20 years and I have never seen a catastrophic frame failure until now ( from any company ). I am sure Thor would say the same....it is not common.

I do not see a recall ever taking place....I know Josh, I've dealt with him when he was at Dahon. I expect this will turn into a criminal matter. I hope the UK folks are contacting the authorities. I am doing my part in the states.



Thanks,

Yan



SG3 Storm

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:11 pm


April 4, 2014 - 7:51pm
edwinic




Country: Philippines


SG3 Storm or do you mean SGM? Btw, what does the bike has to do with Tern? @bikerrrguy

Also you mention many exact cases in fb, can you link me? there is a huge following in manila for that bike and they should be warned, at least.
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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:11 pm


April 4, 2014 - 8:21pm
orbit

Country: UK


blushThis is like a horror movie. The way this thread is going its not just Tern. Its any frame design that has a split folding design. What is Bikerrrguy saying? I thought this thread was about problems with Tern bike frames, now its turning into a conspiracy theory.surprise

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:12 pm


April 4, 2014 - 8:23pm
bikerrrguy


Country: USA


edwinic wrote:

SG3 Storm or do you mean SGM? Btw, what does the bike has to do with Tern? @bikerrrguy

Also you mention many exact cases in fb, can you link me? there is a huge following in manila for that bike and they should be warned, at least.



I read about it a while ago from https://www.facebook.com/groups/TiklopSocietyOfThePhilippines/. They had a some pictures posted. I found the attached picture on a different facebook page. I think the news about SGM has already spread pretty quickly.



I concluded it is highly likely Tern used the same factory...looking at the frame, the break, and the timing. I think the conclusion is very rational.



Thanks,

Yan

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:13 pm


April 4, 2014 - 8:33pm
bikerrrguy

Country: USA



orbit wrote:

 Embarassed This is like a horror movie. The way this thread is going its not just Tern. Its any frame design that has a split folding design. What is Bikerrrguy saying? I thought this thread was about problems with Tern bike frames, now its turning into a conspiracy theory. Shocked 



I've been in the bike biz for 20 years. I get the trade journals, have friends in the industry. Rode well over 100k miles in the past 20 years. Trust me when I say is not normal to read about catastrophic frame failures in the bike industry. Tern and SGM have the same failures at the same time 2013/2014 ( and the frames look similar ). I would wager these came from the same factory line, and the importers have been aware of the defect for much longer than any of us.



Anyone disagree???



Yan

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:13 pm


April 4, 2014 - 8:44pm
bikerrrguy

Country: USA


bikerrrguy wrote:



I am certain Tern has not sold anywhere near half of the claimed 100k bikes. I have contacted the CPSC and they will get the real numbers from USA customs. FYI behind Japan the USA is the top folding bike market in the world. The UK market is actually small in comparison. FYI I distributed bikes in both markets.





I did not make my point clear on this matter. I meant to say that 6 known failures in a small market ( UK ) is ridiculous.



Thanks,

Yan

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:14 pm


April 4, 2014 - 8:49pm
orbit

Country: UK


?

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:14 pm


April 4, 2014 - 8:57pm
orbit

Country: UK


 Shocked So what is going on?  Sad 

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:15 pm


April 4, 2014 - 9:32pm
Steveroot

Country: USA


bikerrrguy wrote:

My name is Yan Lyansky designer of the Downtube folding bike. I am also a Sivananda trained yogi, Theta Healer, and math professor. Keith C. Johns is not a real person rather an account run by Tern. Lately Josh Hon has been posting under this alias.


At the risk of encouraging the troll:

You have quite a C.V. there. A PhD, I assume in math, is impressive though I'd expect it to indicate a rational way of thinking. This directly contradicts the claimed "Theta Healing" credential. And to top it off, your hypothesis about Keith reveals a paranoid delusional train of thought. Come to think of it, so did your comment about "criminal intent", which borders on slander.

Theta Healing: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theta_healing (pure nuttery)

Here is an image (no, not Photoshopped) of Keith and me in 2007. He looks pretty real to me.


Keith and Steve

This wild speculation makes you a less than credible source.

Steve

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:16 pm


April 4, 2014 - 11:50pm
Keith C. Johns





Country: USA



bikerrrguy wrote:

For the record there are multiple people on this forum with hidden/false identities....I am one. My name is Yan Lyansky designer of the Downtube folding bike. I am also a Sivananda trained yogi, Theta Healer, and math professor. Keith C. Johns is not a real person rather an account run by Tern. Lately Josh Hon has been posting under this alias.

At risk of feeding this Troll once more, I need to suggest to everyone on this forum that if this person's claimed identity is as accurate as his ridiculous claim that I am Josh hiding behind an alias, then you should all be advised to ignore all of his posts. For anyone duped by this Troll, consider that although most of my posts have been fully supportive of Tern, I have offered up some questions and criticisms which Josh certainly would never do to his own company--namely my questioning whether Tern's long term interests are served by restricting themselves to only aluminum bike frames.

If bikerrrguy is blatantly lying about me and Josh, I would not trust anything he says.

I have notified Downtube Bicycles of this ID theft and am awaiting a confirmation of what I surmise. I would be shocked if the CEO of another folding bike company would stoop so low as to act as a Troll on his competitor's forum.

Addendum: I just saw Steve's post just above this one. Thanks again for that milkshake, Steve!

Remember that the intent of Trolls is not to help or serve anyone but themselves: their sole purpose is to hijack the discussion at hand and make it all about their own lies and distortions to serve their own egos. Ignore them and when they don't get the attention they seek, they soon give up and look for some other forum to haunt.

Second Addendum: As I just posted below, it turns out that bikerrrguy IS the founder of Downtube as confirmed by email. Let us hope that that fact is the one true statement he has made. But he is still playing the part of a Troll nonetheless, which is beneath his dignity it should seem.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:17 pm


April 4, 2014 - 10:34pm
bikerrrguy

Country: USA



Steveroot wrote:

At the risk of encouraging the troll:

You have quite a C.V. there. A PhD, I assume in math, is impressive though I'd expect it to indicate a rational way of thinking. This directly contradicts the claimed "Theta Healing" credential. And to top it off, your hypothesis about Keith reveals a paranoid delusional train of thought. Come to think of it, so did your comment about "criminal intent", which borders on slander.

Theta Healing: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theta_healing (pure nuttery)

This wild speculation makes you a less than credible source.

Steve



I received my Ph.D. from Temple University in math. I'd say I'm pretty rational, but not always. I have taught a wide range of theoretical courses over the past few years, and I was the Bahamas National Chess champion twice ( from my four years on island )

Currently I am more proud of my studies in Yoga and Theta Healing.....that is why I mentioned them before my math background. These concepts do not contradict standard logic, they actually go beyond.

I am an expert on folding bicycles, I have imported into the USA, UK, and Indonesia. I know about defects QC and the whole gambit. I also keep up with the folding news ( that's how I knew about SGM ). I know that there is a real problem here.

My Downtube store was once a Dahon dealer and I interacted with Josh....not a pleasant experience. FYI I think the world of his father.



Thanks,

Yan

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:17 pm


April 4, 2014 - 10:50pm
bugaboosun

Country: USA



Ok expert.

Why are these joints failing?

What can be done to control th quality of the welds?

Or is the design inherently flawed?



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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:17 pm


April 4, 2014 - 10:50pm
edwinic




Country: Philippines


Mr Yan,

First off you mention many exact cases of SG3 in Fb, however i found only one involving a Filipino rider. His unit was since then replaced and he seemed happy with the replacement.

Your conclusion that tern uses SGM is a longshot and not conclusive. I would expect that you provide more evidence (and not from Tern that they are not using the SGM factory, if you know what l mean.)

There is a big follower of SGM rider in Manila, they have fbgroup too. You may join them and enquired if any further breakage has occured so far.

Even much bigger is the TSP, (Tiklop=folding) a group of folding bike owners and bike mechanics interested in any brand of folders. You may also ask them to further your case.

Also this is an out of topic subject - can you link me to your chess victory over a grandmaster (I could link you to my few wins and draws and loss over fide master and international master)

Oopps, i think mr josh need not to prove that he is not using an alias, he has no burden to prove it, you agree? Steveroot bites.
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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:18 pm


April 4, 2014 - 10:59pm
bikerrrguy

Country: USA



edwinic wrote:

First off you mention many exact cases of SG3 in Fb, however i found only one involving a Filipino rider. His unit was since then replaced and he seemed happy with the replacement.

Your conclusion that tern uses SGM is a longshot and not conclusive. I would expect that you provide more evidence (and not from Tern that they are not using the SGM factory, if you know what l mean.)

There is a big follower of SGM rider in Manila, they have fbgroup too. You may join them and enquired if any further breakage has occured so far.

Even much bigger is the TSP, (Tiklop=folding) a group of folding bike owners and bike mechanics interested in any brand of folders. You may also ask them to further your case.

Also this is an out of topic subject - can you link me to your chess victory over a grandmaster (I could link you to my few wins and draws and loss over fide master and international master)

Oopps, i think mr josh need not to prove that he is not using an alias, he has no burden to prove it, you agree? Steveroot bites.

In Tiklop on facebook there was a post with at least 5 SGM frame failures. I recall reading the Storm 1 and 2 were good, however the 3 had issues. I will try to look for a better link tomorrow.

I won the chess game close to 20 years ago. Stopped playing for 15 years and just got back into it. Unfortunately I do not have the game....but I plan on beating some serious players in the coming years.



I was wrong about the identity....my apologies

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:19 pm


April 4, 2014 - 11:14pm
bikerrrguy

Country: USA


bugaboosun wrote:

Ok expert.

Why are these joints failing?

What can be done to control th quality of the welds?

Or is the design inherently flawed?





My expertese relating to this matter is:

1. defect rates- I have never seen this high number of major defects in myy 11 years as a manufacturer/importer/distributor

2. market size ( share ) UK is tiny compared to the USA. I believe we sold 8-10 times more bikes in the USA.

3. acceptable faults in the bike industry- I never saw this kind of stuff.

4. Probabilty- Using the given information the conclusions I would come to are not good.

5. Running a bike business that imports from China/Taiwan- You would be surprised how little factory engineers at bike factories know about bikes. I find it fuuny. Most folding bike importers buy stock bikes from factories. Some make modifications, but most do not have engineers on staff. Looks like Tern used the SGM factory....I will get more pics tomorrow.



I can not make a judgement on the frames without inspecting them, however I believe the 2nd or 3rd rider with a broken frame did an excellent job detailing the fault.



Thanks,

Yan

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:19 pm


April 4, 2014 - 11:19pm
Keith C. Johns



Country: USA


I just received confirmation from Downtube that bikerrrguy really is Dr. Yan.

Dr. Yan:

OK. But really, it seems to me that the CEO of a competitor bike company should have better things to do than try to disrupt the forum of its competitor. It is underhanded, even if you think you have inside knowlege and a few facts on your side. On Dahon's forum, when Josh ran it, he always spoke highly and supportingly of other bike companies even though they were competitors. I recall specifically a few comments he made about Bike Friday which were very upbeat. His attitude was that ALL bike companies are making the world better by getting people out of cars and into a more healthful lifestyle, and anything he could do to get people to buy bikes, even the competitors' bikes, was worthy. I am not making this up. So your charaterization of Josh is out of phase with everything I do know about him. The suggestion that he has criminal intent and is willing to let people suffer rather than fix a design flaw just does not match the man I have observed for at least twelve years. I want to suggest that you ought to consult your lawyers before you make libelous or slanderous comments on the forum of your competitor.

I have some interest in your product line, as I do of all folding bikes, but I want to suggest that if you think you will succeed better by knocking down the competition, that is not the way to go. It makes your cause look less than honorable. You ought to take Josh's lead and support the brotherhood of all bike manufacturers.

If Tern is making a bad design, it will eventually be impossible to hide this fact from the public--why risk the taint that clings to any person who slanders his opponent? Let the chips fall where they may. Stay above the fray.

But I want to say that I disagree with your conclusions about Tern. Call me naive if you will, I believe these guys are better than you are suggesting they are. And I really would be surprised to hear that they don't have any engineers on their team--just a bunch of marketing guys: how would they come up with so many unique bikes? I can't accept the suggestion that they stole all of them from Dahon. I recommend you stick to facts you can prove, and post them on your own forum too. But again, I don't think you will win converts by bad-mouthing your competition.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

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