Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:14 am


March 26, 2014 - 3:02am
Rager

Country: France



I have just emailed Tern with my frame number, asking if my bike is in the same batch. Given that any frame failure could lead to a fatal accident, I have requested a prompt response.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:15 am


March 26, 2014 - 6:40am
Re-tern



Country: UK


Moriah; I apologise if I misread your email; i am only concerned about other people having similar incidents to myself and the other riders whose frames snapped. All I was saying was that i do maintain my bikes and ride with due diligence as this is my daily transport and I need it to be it good servicable condition.

For everyones information the serial number on my bike (or the number by the bottom bracket; I assume this is the serial number?) was 130203. I hope this will help to reassure a lot of you out there with similar bikes.

As for the welding; mine was also just tack welded at the bottom of the frame tube and just the outside of the topof the frame and lower gusset was welded. Looking at my photos, Lees photos and now the photos from Jonathan, they all appear to have suffered similar fate.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:15 am


March 26, 2014 - 7:43am
Rager


Country: France


Sorry for posting here but I couldn't find the right place. I'm trying to upload photos of the welding on my frame but when I select an image, I then just get an Upload Image window with an Insert or Cancel image and nothing happens.

Where am I going wrong?

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:15 am


March 26, 2014 - 8:13am
Steveroot


Country: USA


You should first see a window that allows you to select an image ("Browse... Select... Open... Insert").

Then you should see another window called "Image Details" where you can enter a caption, select the image size, then "Insert".

It should say if the image is too large.

HTH.

STeve

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:16 am


March 26, 2014 - 11:40am
Rager


Country: France

Steve,

Thanks for the info - the problem seems to be as soon as try and insert a photo, the window immediately jumps to the next one???

OK, I think the problem was perhaps caused by a too large file. Trying again...






I would appreciate an 'official' response from Tern as to whether or not my frame is in the same batch and whether or not there is any problem with the welds.

Any comments from others, especially those with broken frames, would be appreciated.

Regards



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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:17 am

March 26, 2014 - 1:29pm
mark bickerton



Team Tern
UK Representative


Country: UK



Hi Everyone,

As far as UK issues are concerned I appologise if I have not got back to anyone when they had expected me to.

The normal process is that the UK Distributor (Evans) customer relations should be the main point of contact.
I was under the impression that these cases had been dealt with properly and effectively by them, and maybe the issue is that Tern have not communicated very well through the distributor/dealer network….again appologies.

Anyone is more than welcome to contact me directly almost any time, and my contact details can be found at www.cyclemotion.co.uk or I can be emailed at the address below.

As Josh has stated the Tern team have investigated the three frames received and are continuing to monitor these very sensitive issues.

It is not for me to outline anything more here, but I can totally assure forum contributors that the whole team are in the case to make sure everything possible that can be done is being done. If anyone feels we are under-performing please do not hesitate to contact us directly and urgently.

Sincerely,

Mark


P.S. I have tried to contact Lee Tibbetts today and spoke to Retern yesterday as mentioned above.
__________________

Mark Bickerton
UK Representation for Tern
mark.bickerton@ternbicycles.com


Last edited by Admin on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:13 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:18 am


March 26, 2014 - 2:22pm
A Moulton

Joined: 2011-10-18
Country: USA


thor wrote:
To answer your question, no I havent heard about a catastrophic frame failure as of yet, You are the first.

According to the USA CPSC there were a couple of Tern frame hinge weld breaks that led to a recall last year. I'm surprised you were completely out of the loop on this and haven't heard of it.

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2013/Stile-Products-Recalls-Tern-Folding-Bicycles/

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:20 am


March 26, 2014 - 4:58pm
thor




Country: USA


A Moulton wrote:


thor wrote:
To answer your question, no I havent heard about a catastrophic frame failure as of yet, You are the first.


According to the USA CPSC there were a couple of Tern frame hinge weld breaks that led to a recall last year. I'm surprised you were completely out of the loop on this and haven't heard of it.

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2013/Stile-Products-Recalls-Tern-Folding-...



I have not seen any broken frame from the few verge frames who were recalled last year, ( I have replaced the ones I sold with new frames and in two cases with a complete new bike ), obviously and I certainly have not seen a Link frame broken before I read it here from the UK



By the way Alex Moulton died Dec 12 2012

In 1976, Moulton was awarded the CBE for services to industry. Other honours include:


The Diploma di Medaglia d'Oro, Milan (1964)

Queen's Award for Technical Innovation (1967)

Honorary Doctorates from the Royal College of Art (1967), University of Bath (1971) and Cranfield University (1994)

Elected to the Faculty of Royal Designers for Industry (1968), Master of the Faculty from 1981–1983

Fellow of The Royal Academy of Engineering (1980)

Vice President of the Royal Academy of Engineering from 1985 to 1988.

He has an entry in the Golden Book of Cycling, which he signed when he was 71.




you trying to live up to his name ?

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:20 am



March 26, 2014 - 8:10pm
orbit


Country: UK



Thor. There is no need to be insulting. It is disrespectful to those who have had frame failures Also If a person wants to use Moulton as his name on this site it has no other value other than his name is Moulton or that he likes the Moulton brand and small wheeled bikes. The problem is that there have been frames breaking in half. Customers are rightly concerned. I only hope we do not hear of any more and the problem is resolved.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:21 am


March 26, 2014 - 10:13pm
thor


Country: USA


I feel that mr moulton tried to portrait me as a liar .. so where is the insult ?

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:21 am


March 27, 2014 - 7:45am
Re-tern



Country: UK


Thor is a mythological Nordic God; are you trying to live up to his name? Maybe it is his name as well, the same as you using your own name? He was not insulting you; merely pointing out the fact that there were other frame issues before the ones on the Link D8's, and that as a Tern dealer he was surprised you were not aware of it. Again your replies are very offensive.

Rager - The failure would appear to have started behind where your cables are obstucting on your top photo; being a lighter coloured frame you may have a better chance of seeing a defect appearing (should a defect occur), than on the black frame. If your frame number was similar to mine, and you want to carry on riding the bike, I would suggest carrying out regular inspections of the area until everyone receives clarification from Tern on whether this is an isolated defect on a handful of bikes, or if it is more widespread.



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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:21 am


March 27, 2014 - 8:36am
Rager

Country: France



Re-Tern, many thanks for the extra info, I will most certainly be keeping a very careful check on the welds.

I am awaiting to hear from Tern whether or not my frame is in the same batch.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:22 am


March 27, 2014 - 10:30am
Jonathan_J

Country: Israel



Hi All



Thanks for your concern, after having headache last night. The doctor explaned to me that I have a head injury...

Saying that I also see that there is a weld missing at the bottom.

Please some one from Tern tell us that this missing Weld was fixed!!!

In addition who will replace my Helment, riding coat, shorts and all other accesories which were torn ?



Jonathan

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:22 am


March 27, 2014 - 12:21pm
Re-tern


Country: UK


Hi Jonathan,



Sorry to hear you too are still suffering from your accident, I think Lee is also suffering with his head injury too. I am also still having to see a physio about my hand as I still can't straighten my finger properly after my own bike failure. My jacket and jeans were also torn in my accident, I think Tern should be glad no-one has has taken any legal action against them yet, over these incidents; I have received an number of emails from companies who have obviously read the thread and think i have a legitimate case (i am sure the other have also received such emails too). Hopefully there will be no need for this to happen; however they only need to have a more serious consequence of a frame failure, and it could be very serious indeed.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:39 pm


March 27, 2014 - 6:17pm

Steveroot

Joined: 2011-08-01

Country: USA



Based on the other images, it appears the fracture was in the weld bead itself, not between the weld bead and the frame. So if you had such a fracture, it should be relatively easy to see because it would most likely be in the center of the weld. Of course, you would have to look at the right time... the rate of propagation of the crack is unknown. Yours looks fine from here. Different frame colors might affect visualization.

On a positive note, I'm gratified to see comments from Josh Hon and Mark Bickerton on this thread. This may be tough, but it lives up to the (rather high, IMO) bar set by Tern from the beginning. Keep it up, Guys!

Steve


Last edited by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:40 pm


March 28, 2014 - 3:10am
Rager

Country: France



Steve,

Thanks for your comments about the weld - I sincerely hope you're right. However, in the absence of any specific information from Tern, we really have nothing to base such observations on.

I'm afraid the failure to provide information, the fact that we now learn there were previous frame failures on other models, that dealers don't know how to fold the bikes, again at the very best, show that communication is poor.

I am still hoping to hear from Tern whether or not my bike is in the same batch. Given that this is a safety critical issue, I would really like to know something offical.

Regards.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:41 pm


March 28, 2014 - 9:23am
Steveroot

Country: USA



Rager wrote:

I sincerely hope you're right. However, in the absence of any specific information from Tern, we really have nothing to base such observations on.

Well, I think the images of (three of) the fractures, which are all apparently the same, are something to base such observations on. Sure, it would be nice to have some kind of "official" explanation. However, it won't be possible to say with certainty whether any given welded joint will or won't fail. Obviously testing to failure can't be done on 100% of frames, or there wouldn't be any frames to sell. Non-destructive testing might be possible, but might not be 100% effective; plus, you can bet it would add significantly to the cost of the product.

Rager wrote:

... we now learn there were previous frame failures on other models...

This isn't a recent revelation. Last May (2013) there was a voluntary recall by Tern: http://www.ternbicycles.com/frame-replacement-notice,

Steve

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:45 pm


April 1, 2014 - 4:00pm
jfx

Joined: 2014-04-01
Country: UK



I had exactly the same thing happen to me last night with a six month old Eclipse P9. Leaving me lying in the road, glad that the dent in my cycle helmet was not in my head and that I was not on a busy road.

I have only ever ridden this bike on roads and cycle paths. Tern need to take these reports very seriously before someone doesn't walk away from one of these failures. These frames are not safe to be on the road.




Last edited by Admin on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:14 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:45 pm


April 1, 2014 - 4:48pm
Rager

Country: France



JFX terrible to hear of another frame failure - I hope you're ok.

Tern: PLEASE respond with some long overdue meaningful information about what is happening.

Normally I'm not a litigatious person and I would hope that Tern would address the problem and update customers. However, this appears not be to the case. Personally I have had no reply to my email. Given the lack of response, should my frame fail - and I sincerely hope it doesn't - now, I would not hesitate to prosecute.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:46 pm


April 1, 2014 - 6:55pm
orbit

Country: UK



Tern, YET ANOTHER BROKEN FRAME. Crying or Very sad  Tern must respond. Ive said its good to have a forum, but these faliures are building up. Not good.It looks like my wife was right(God help me}. Tern is off the purcahse list until a valid explanation of how these failures have occuered. Is this a design flaw.? Or a manufacturing defect? Dahon have a simalar product have these breakages been common with Dahon? If not why Tern? Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad 

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:46 pm


April 1, 2014 - 6:58pm
halfwheel

Joined: 2014-04-01
Country: USA



Rager, if you're really concerned about the safety of your bike take it to a dealer and have them look at it, that's what they're there for. If you don't have a Tern dealer take it to any bike shop, it won't be the first time they've seen an aluminum frame. No company is going to approve the safety of any product from pictures over the internet. Would you really trust a company that did?

And now you're bringing up the topic of litigation just in case your frame might fail?

Take it to your dealer.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:46 pm


April 1, 2014 - 7:06pm
Krudc

Country: USA


This is worrisome as it is the first non-link d8 with similar shearing. This model eclipse wasn't on the orginal recall last year either (only the s11i).

Hopefully, tern can figure out where the QC issue happened and isolate the affected frames.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:47 pm


April 1, 2014 - 7:08pm
orbit

Country: UK



Sorry but what do you think the riders have been doing with these frames? Ok it may be possible that the rider was 30 stone with a back pack or has been stunt riding. But honestly I dont think this is the case. They would not be on this forum. The frames are breaking in the same place. Why?

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:47 pm


April 1, 2014 - 9:44pm
Steveroot

Country: USA



I can't believe that Josh and his team are not doing their best to determine the cause and extent of this problem. After five reported fractures, I am hopeful that some sort of information will be forthcoming. As a Verge owner, it does occur that it's remotely (or not) possible that I have a dog in this hunt. At least weekly I'm feeling the bottom weld on my bike with my fingers... I don't believe these fractures occur "overnight", though they may progress rapidly once they reach a certain point. The weld on the Verge is smooth and any surface imperfection would probably be detectable. This might not be as effective a surveillance technique on the regular welds, which should probably be inspected visually.

While we're waiting, here's a web site with some interesting failures of various bicycle parts: http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-009/000.html . It's apparent that material failures are part of the wallpaper in bicycling. This is not to say that the current crop of failures should not be investigated fully.

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Re: Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

Post by Admin on Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:48 pm


April 2, 2014 - 4:26am
Frank Dippel

Country: Germany



Steveroot wrote:


It's apparent that material failures are part of the wallpaper in bicycling.

Steve


Good to see you rowing back a bit, Steve. On a (non-folding-) bike test in Germany a few years ago there were 13 broken frames of 20 tested bike-models, most of them well-known brands. Just a bit of harsh handling was enough for them....

Now, the issues with tern-frames are in focus on this forum (of course they are!), and all the other brands' issues and broken frames are forgotten.

If I was in Josh's position, I wouldn't discuss these problems on the internet, but with the bikes' owners, and I'm shure he's doing that...

Best

Frank

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